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Saturday, November 12, 2016

CXII. The opposite of Love is not Hate

Word association tests are used by many therapists to see how people feel or what their personalities are like to get answers to some issues they may be dealing with.  Usually people say the opposite of what the word is given to them.  Some other answers are of course acceptable because many can still see the association.  And then there are those weirdos who are not connected with reality and have some kind of strange response that makes the therapists think twice about them.  Such as:

WORD GIVEN
NORMAL RESPONSE
UNDERSTANDABLE RESPONSE
ABNORMAL RESPONSE
Black
White
Color
Neon
Day
Night
Monday
Tooth
Rich
Poor
Money
Polar Bear
Open
Close
Sesame
Clock
Boy
Girl
Scout
Duck
Smart
Dumb
Alec
Verb
High
Low
Dope
Blast



So, if someone did the test with you and gave you the word love, the normal response would be hate. An understandable response would be emotion. An abnormal response could be anything from Aardvark to Zyklon B.  But none of these answers actually tell us what the real opposite or even the real meaning of what love is.

The real opposite of love is not hate.  The real opposite of love is apathy.  Love is not just an emotion so it can't be hate.  Love is not just a feeling, so it can't be associated with food or items we say we "love".  Love defined in the Bible is found in 1 Corinthians 13.
  • Love is patient, love is kind.  It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.  It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.  It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.  Love never fails.
Although love is a noun in the essence of our existence, love is a verb when it comes to human interaction.  Love needs to be shown.  It requires action.  The only way to show love is through what you do.  So if that is true then the only way to not show love or to show the opposite of it is to not do anything---apathy.  Parents who neglect their children do not love their children.  Teachers who do not take time out to teach students do not love the ones they ignore.  Spouses who do not SHOW any love to their partner do not love their partner.

Here is the problem with the world.  Some think love is an emotion.  The problem with this is that emotions change with situations.  And when the situation is over they feel they have lost love and they replace it with another emotion.  Or they search for more emotional love and start the cycle all over again.  They will never be satisfied.  The world thinks love means having sex.  They go from partner to partner looking for something that can never be there.  They think love and marriage are interchangeable when they're not.  Younger people think it has to be part of relationship.  They give themselves away only to be hurt when they realize there is more to this world or that their partner no longer wants them in that way.  Guilt and loneliness sets in causing eventually feelings of self judgement and low self esteem.  The world thinks love is conditional.  No.  Love NEVER fails.  It will always be there.  It is there in times of trouble, pain, and disparity.  They try to change things about themselves to fit in.  They go through fads.  They try and "find themselves" because they can't understand that pure love is unconditional and forever but they can't slow down enough to see it, going from situation to situation.  The world thinks love is about tolerance.  No.  Tolerance means you do nothing about something.  And the opposite of love is to not do anything--apathy.  Many think tolerance and acceptance are the same thing but they're not.  You can accept someone for who they are, hence you are patient with who they are.  You are kind to them.  You do not dishonor them for who they are.  But tolerance on the other hand means you give into their actions.  That is apathy.

This is why many people get mad at Christians because we are not tolerant of certain actions, thinking we're not showing love.  No.  We have love and we should should it but intolerance is not hate.  It is just the idea that we do not have to abide by certain standards others want us to live by.  It's the same thing on the non-religious side, only they expect us to have to live by what they say.  They then preach that we are bigots for not tolerating what they do.  But Christians have the biggest hate because we are told to love and yet we neglect those who are hurting.  We see the "wrong doings" in their lives but we forget to see the person.  Christians do not show enough love.  We have the greatest example:

John 15:13
  • Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.
Love is the only thing that will break down barriers.  Laws of man can not do it.

17 comments:

Paul G said...

Hi Tim, we all know that the opposite of hate is love, therefore the opposite of love is also hate.
I have not met anyone yet who does love someone unconditionally.
Do you love your wife unconditionally ?
I don't think so.
God does not even love unconditionally, if He would love unconditionally, then He would not utterly destroy those in hell if He would love them.
God loves the righteous and hates the wicked.

The definition of love.
1 John 4:8 and 16, God is Love !
1 Cor. 13:8, Love never fails !

If you believe that Love failed even once. If just one person is in hell who was loved by your god, then your god is NOT Love.
100% success rate that never fails is by definition Love.

Tim said...

Paul,

If you use the standards of man then love and hate are opposites like I kind alluded to in my post. But if you use God's standards they are not. Do I love my wife unconditionally? No. But that is what makes me human and not God. His love is higher than mine.

Are you saying God hates people? If so, then He hates all of us! And He should because we are all guilty of sinning and disobeying and impure. We all deserve death. Scripture does say that God hates the wicked with a passion. So I agree with some of your statements.

Love and hate though are not opposite. Love and apathy are opposite. Love and the absence of God are opposite. When God sends one to hell He removes Himself. He removes the love. That is a different topic.

How can you say God is love yet not live unconditionally? That is an oxy-moron.

Paul G said...

Hi Tim,
Love and hate have to be opposites, otherwise we would not know what love is.
Perhaps it's like sugar and salt, we would not know what sugar is, if we could not compare it with salt, it is the knowledge of the salt which gives the sweetness to the sugar.

That is exactly the same with God's love. If God would love everybody the same, then His love would men nothing to us as His children.
Perhaps, if your wife would love you the same as any other man in the whole world, her love would mean nothing to you, her love for you gets the strength by the rejection of other man.

You said, 'Love and the absence of God are opposite. When God sends one to hell He removes Himself. He removes the love.'

You see, that would not be unconditional love.
If God removes His love, then it's not unconditional.
To be unconditional He would need to love the sinner in hell. That's unthinkable.

God's standard of love has been passed down to us and we love the same as God, because God's love has been shed abroad in our hearts, which is not agape love (unconditional).

Tim said...

I will disagree Paul. You kind of said yourself with the wife example. You said she rejects or removes all other men. That's how I know she loves me. It's not that she hates the other men. She removes her love from them.

The absence of love is hell. Without God we are hell-bound. When the Father left Jesus and He cried why have you forsaken (or left) me, is the feeling of hell in a way. Jesus became all sin and God removed Himself and Jesus as a man was alone.

I am sure you will disagree but that is what this blog is for.

Paul G said...

Tim, I hope you don't mind me disagreeing with you ? but if love is removed, it is called hate. Hate is the absence of love.
And God did not removed Himself from the Lord Jesus. Remember, Jesus is the Lord God Almighty and there is none beside Him.

Also, I don't think that the absence of love is hell, hell is a place of torment and suffering and it is the absence of blessing, or 'heaven'.

Tim said...

Of course not Paul. We can always disagree on certain issues. I just happen to believe if Love is removed it is not hate it is the absence of God, just like you said hell is the absence of blessing. I can agree with that statement. Look deeper into what you said.

But back to the original point, I feel what you are saying. I know why you believe love and hate are opposite. I explain that in my Thought posted. To the human mind/dictionary it will seem the logical response. Biblically speaking it is not. Everything God does is out of love for us, even His commands. Remove love, and you don't have hate...you have nothing...apathy.

But, yes you can disagree all you want.

Paul G said...

OK. my brother, I will disagree not for the sake to be disagreeable, but for the sake of truth.

You said, 'if Love is removed it is not hate it is the absence of God,'

You see, God is omnipresent at all times, He is everywhere and sees all things and nothing is hidden before Him, there isn't a place where He is not. Yes, I even know what you are thinking at this point :-)

And yes, I believe that hate is the opposite to love, because any other way does not make sense to me.

Even the Lord Himself said that He hated Esau and loved Jacob. That was before they were born, while still in the womb He hated Esau, meaning that He that He didn't liked Esau at all, and that was with the absence of love.
There was no love there for Esau, because the Lord hated him just as He has said.
I'm sure that the Lord could have used another word than hate, but He used that word because it is the opposite to love.

Tim said...

Will God be in hell? I don't know, but I sure don't think so. I think we can take Adam and Eve as analogy. When God left (or kicked them out), death, pain, sorrow, and all things that plague the human race entered the world. I think that once judgment comes and He separates Himself from those who denied Him then things worse than death and pain will happen.

I respect what you said, "I believe that hate is the opposite to love, because any other way does not make sense to me." I can accept that. Some things will not make sense to me either especially if I think of God with my mind/intellect like the world does. As I have said I know why you feel the opposite of love is hate but that's only in our language.

God hated Esau and Jacob He loved. Sure. God did not care for what Esau was or was doing. You have brought up the womb issue before with these two and we have discussed that this is not Biblical, only interpretation. Yes they struggled but He did not hate either one of them. Esau was hated only as a result not as prerequisite. Have you ever loved someone but hated what they did? Did you hate them?

Just pretty sure this one of those disagreeable moments. If you are going to bound your faith by the English language then you will always limit things your faith can do.

Paul G said...

Tim, you said, "Will God be in hell?"
I'm sure about that, Is there a place where God is not, if He is omnipresent ?
And what is hell ?

Concerning Jacob and Esau, you said, "Yes they struggled but He did not hate either one of them."
If God would not hate either one of them, then He would not love either one of them.

You see, love without hate has no meaning, but the Scriptures said that He hated Esau, before he had done good or evil.
And shortly after He explains why, "In order that election might stand".

The doctrine of love is the same as the doctrine of election. Within the doctrine of election must be an opposite, a rejection, otherwise election is meaningless.
Election is just like love, NOT according to their deeds, but according to God's choice.

Tim said...

Paul where does it say that God hated Esau before he had done anything. Please do not use Genesis 25:23. It only said the elder shall serve the younger. That is not hate that is God using prophecy to show His power and plan.

But on the same note: Notice Isaac loved Esau, does that mean he hated Jacob? I mean if you love one then from your perspective that means you must hate the other. Love and hate can't exist for the same person right???????

What is hell? In reality we don't know. Because there are a few words that mean "hell" if you use English only. Sheol, the grave, "the lake of fire", Hades, Gehenna as examples. And they are used in the Bible. But they are not all hell. The lake of fire is definitely different.

All we know is that it is a place of torment, gnashing of teeth, where the worm never dies, and stuff like that. But is God tormenting them? Why are they gnashing their teeth? Is God really doing that to them? Or did He place an angel to in hell to do all the torment? None of that makes sense in the standard we know of about God. Hell is a separation from God. They are gnashing their teeth because the presence of God is not around. We can see bits and pieces of that here on earth. When we walk in a situation where we know God does not approve or in a place where we know God is not wanted we feel the evil. We feel fear. We know a small feeling of what it is like without God. That is why Jesus screamed out on the cross. He felt the separation as a man from God the Father. I am not going down that argument here by the way, so no need to say it. He knew hell so we won't have to. Just like He was sacrificed and spilled His own blood so we won't have to. He lived in poverty, so we won't have to. He took on sin, so we don't have to. It pleased the Father to crush His Son so we won't have to go through it. He did all of that so we can stand righteous without blame or blemish.

Paul G said...

Hi Tim, Romans 9:11, "for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to election might stand,"
And in (Rom. (9:13), "Just as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

Yes, love and hate could and does exist for the same person, but not at the same time. Sometimes a person loves another person in the beginning and later it can turn into a fervent hate.

And yes, Esau loved Jacob, but that was not so with God, God hated Esau.
Now the reason for God to hate Esau was the election factor, and to give love its power as I have said in a previous comment.

Concerning hell; once an old preacher said, 'when you are in hell, you surely know it.' and, 'when you are going through hell, keep on going,' :-)

In my understanding I think that when a person is suffering intensely, perhaps being buried alive in a earthquake, or being in agony with a sickness etc. that to me is hell.
Perhaps, have a look in Syria, if that is not hell for some, then what is ?
You see, God passes the cup of His wroth among the nations because of their wickedness.
Tell me, does God love them when He rains fire and brimstone on a nation ?
And remember, it is God who does ALL things ALONE (Isa. 44:24).

Tim said...

Paul, thank you for supplying the scripture. I honestly don't think I ever studied that before. I appreciate you finding that for me. To me it doesn't change the original posting of what I am saying but I now see your point. (although the word here is "miseo" which can also mean "love less" and not straight up "hate")

You stated you can have love and hate for the same person, how can that be? You either hate them or love the right? OR...you can love them and hate what they do or have become.

Now comes a question, how many people does God hate and not love at all?

I like what you're saying about hell.

But does He love those He rains on, even fire and brimstone? I would still say yes. Because we view death and pain differently than God does I believe. We see it sometimes as the final destination in life. Once it happens it's over. That's why we cry, miss people, and have anger when death comes. If we viewed life from more of a spiritual level then death is different. They were wicked, God loved them. He gave them the law to show He wanted reconciliation with them. He sent Jesus to show us He love us. But if we reject these things then He hates what we do.

But again thank you for the scripture. I will keep looking at it and see where it leads me with Esau and Jacob.

Paul G said...

Tim, I think we all find it is easy to believe that God can and does hate a really evil and wicked man (Ps. 11:5 + Ps. 26:5 etc.)
But when it comes for God to hate someone who hasn't transgressed in any form or way, we find that difficult to take. But that is necessarily for us, so as to understand the power of love and the power of God in everything.

Perhaps, look in all God's creation, everything has an opposite and without an opposite there would be no meaning.

You see, "love less", really means HATE. It means LESS love, the absence of love, or, love not included.
Love cannot be amalgamated, it cannot be mixed together with hate. It's just like fire and water, or water and oil, they always will be separate.

As for God's hatred; God does not major on hate, that is because He is love, but He makes it clear to them them that He hates, first through His Word the Bible and then with His judgement and His wroth.

But to them that He loves, He forgives their sins and dies for their transgressions and gives them a FREE GIFT which is life and eternal life :-)
You see, all the good things are for us, because He FIRST loved us :-) (1 John 4:19)


Oops, nearly forget, you said, "If we viewed life from more of a spiritual level then death is different. They were wicked, God loved them. He gave them the law to show He wanted reconciliation with them. He sent Jesus to show us He love us. But if we reject these things then He hates what we do."

Again, we need to believe what the Lord has said, "that He hates the wicked" (Ps. 11:5 + Ps. 5:5).
When He hates the wicked, that does not mean that He loves them and only hates their wicked deeds, to the contrary, when He punishes the wicked, He throws the wicked PERSON with their deeds into hell.

Also, God didn't sent someone else to show that He loves us, but rather He came into this world and told us by Himself that He loves us and demonstrated on the cross His love for us, while we were yet sinners Jesus Christ died for us.

Tim said...

So should we "hate the sin and hate the sinner"? I agree that God hates sin and detests when a person does these things. But I don't think He loses the love for people. 1 Peter 3:18 said He died once for all, righteous and unrighteous. Why would He die for those he "hated"?

Less love does not mean "hate". You added your own ideas to that. Less love means just that...not love as much---less of it, not the absence of it.

If God IS love then how CAN He hate? I feel when He says He hates the wicked, it means those who do wicked things are wicked. I don't think He hates people just because they are born. I do see your point about Esau, I just don't think it really means what the English version says.

Paul G said...

Tim, I think that we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, therefore we ought to love our brother as He loves us. You know, even our enemies, and also do good to them :-)

Less love does not mean not love as much, you also have added your own idea to that.
Can you see, the Scriptures does not say or mean 'love less'. The Scriptures said 'hate', therefore our own interpretation is excluded and we need to believe what it says.

God hates some people because they are born of the evil one (the devil) (1 John 3:12), which is the election factor.
And because of election, God loves all of His children who are born of God, and He died only for them (His children) and not for the devils children.

Just think, if God atoned for the sins of everyone without exception, then everyone's sins are forgiven, and God can't charge them again, otherwise it would be double jeopardy.

You see, even in the atonement, there has to be an opposite, otherwise the atonement has no meaning, just like love without hate has also no meaning.

Tim said...

If we love our enemies, isn't that the same thing as God loving His enemies? Why would we love them if God does not love His?

Yes. I did add some of this as my idea, that is what a blog is all about. But there are pieces of scripture when translated that does back my idea. You can't rely on English like you do all the time. There is a reason why God chose certain words. Man translated pieces of scripture sometimes very weakly or vaguely. Such as go here: Ark of the Covenant

The word Ark and Tomb are the same thing but if you only use English they sound nothing alike in terms of meaning.

When you say born of the evil one, do you mean created by him or just acts like him?

I didn't say it was without exception. He did die for all of us. We do have to accept it though. FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD, not just parts of it.

Paul, keep in mind, I am not trying to prove you wrong, but only discussing the issue. I hope that is how you are taking it.

Paul G said...

Tim, the Lord commands us to love OUR enemies, but NOT God's enemies. The psalmist said, "Do I not hate those who hate You O Lord? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You? I hate them with the utmost hatred; they have become my enemies." (Ps. 139:21-22)

Those are very strong words :-)
But that is the reality for every man of God.
You see, we really hate all those who hate the Lord Jesus, but many of us would not say that because we rather love the praises of man.

Yes Tim, I think that those blogs are very good to stir our hearts and to expand the borders of our understanding.

1 John 3:12, 'born of the evil one' means, that they were born of Satan (the Serpent), or, that Satan is their father, their natural father and their spiritual father. They are the none elect, the children of the devil.


'For God so loved the world', do you mean everybody in the whole world ?
Well, He does not.
Remember, He hated Esau and the wicked, therefore the world does not mean everybody.
I think that the Lord loved His own (John 13:1) "....... having loved His own who were in the world ….".
Therefore the Lord Jesus did not die for all, but only for those He loves, the elect.

Remember, there also must be an opposite just like love, otherwise His death has no meaning.

You know me Tim, I always love a good debate :-)

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