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Sunday, August 5, 2012

LXXXII. Eat Mor Chikin'

No, this is not an advertisement for Chick Fil-A.  It is not an endorsement for it nor is it a condemnation of it. It is not a call for a buy-in or a boycott.  It is simply getting some facts in to maybe to clarify some things about the whole situation.  There will certainly be people who disagree with this posting as well as many who will support it.  Neither should be offended nor feel like they are being uplifted and justified.  But let's look at what has been done.  The picture below has some truths to it but many misleadings as well.

The truth of this picture is that many who claim to be Christian would fall into this category. These people do not do all they need to be doing such as going out to the needy, giving to charity, praying at hospitals, evangelizing to the world, all of which Jesus DID say to do.

The lies (misleadings is a better word) about this picture is that all of these people who are against same-sex marriages are not all Christian.  There are some non-Christians even non-religious people who have these feelings as well.  On the other hand even some Christians say that the things that were said by Chick Fil-A president Daniel Cathy were wrong.  So what did Mr. Cathy say?  Here is the line that is posted the most:
"I think we are inviting God's judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say, 'We know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage,' and I pray God's mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to try to redefine what marriage is about,"
First and foremost he said this in a Christian magazine.  One should have expected him to mention God and his views.  Secondly, he never said he was against the people who practice homosexuality.  He is anti same-sex marriage, "guilty as charged".  But that is his opinion.  He is entitled to it.  He did not cause any harm to human beings.  He did not discriminate on a business level.  He did not refuse to serve, hire, talk to, or let die any individual.  He just believes in a traditional marriage.  Yes, he gives money to organizations who fight against gay-marriage, but that is his prerogative.  Just like those who practice homosexuality can support organizations like PRIDE, LGBTSTQ, GLAAD and any other ones that maybe out there that want the legalization of same-sex marriages.  And no one should complain about that.  Cathy's main idea was that man thinks he knows better than God and is trying to step in and change what God had instituted.  It's not about chicken.  It's not about hate (of people), non-acceptance.  It's about a person's view on a certain subject they disagree with, non-tolerance.  The picture below though does show non-acceptance and non-tolerance.

But back to the first picture.  Christians do need to support food banks, homeless, and hospitals more.  But in defense of some of the ones in these pictures, they probably already do.  True Christians give to charities either up front or through their churches.  They just don't make a scene about it.  They support causes they feel are important but they do not physically and/or verbally emphasize it.  Jesus said to evangelize the world too, but when we evangelize then we are still considered spreading hate.  You can't have it both ways.  Either you do all of what Jesus said or nothing. He surely wouldn't have done this: drive-in bully  but maybe Christians are the only ones who are allowed to be judged.

21 comments:

hawkssong68 said...

Yeah. I figured you would weigh in eventually. Did you steal that picture from my facebook page? That's theft!

So anyway. I've (probably) been following the story longer than you have, since it affects me. While you have MOST of your "facts" correct, some are not.

For instance. All we did was say we were going to boycott his restaurant. At first. Probably would have left it at that. But, we'll just say "certain people" couldn't leave it alone. Certain people had to hold an "appreciation day" and verbally slam the gay community for doing something the religious right has done for decades. We were simply asking our supporters to boycott Crapfila. Then everyone got their panties in an uproar about who had more of a right to not tolerate intolerance. The media got heavily involved and you guys got to line up and clog your arteries probably more than you could afford. So THEN we held some counter demonstrations. AFTER appreciation day was announced.

One more point off the picture I posted. When you guys rushed to buy your chicken, no one from our community held any protests. We allowed you to have your little festival of fats without incident. Newsflash after newsflash after newsflash. Listen to some of the comments. Try to "HEAR" what they are saying ABOUT YOUR SISTER. None of this was EVER about gay marriage. Lining up to eat that crap was simple a show of hatred. I've heard account after account from employees receiving comments like "Glad to know you hate queers as much as I do". There were several of these comments caught on camera. It wasn't EVER about gay marriage. It wasn't EVER about free speech. It was a show of pure, unadulterated hate.

Of course, while we held our protest, we did not get the same treatment. Counter protesters at every sight. I personally tried to say hi to ours, but well, let's just say he really wasn't in the mood to talk or evangelize. The media showed up pretty early, well the cameraman anyway. Panned the line, which hadn't really formed yet, for two seconds and left. He told me that he was off the clock at 2 and well, it was already quarter til one....

So, those are some facts that you missed.

Now, onto the picture. You really didn't miss the point, did you? You know for a fact...ah. Never mind. I know you only see the rosiness of Christianity and I only see the rotten intestines. We're never going to agree. And since you stole my picture off of facebook, I'll steal a line from church..."IT WAS A METAPHOR"!

And I still love you. I just don't always agree with how you've chosen to live.

Gozreht said...

Yeah. I figured you would weigh in eventually. Did you steal that picture from my facebook page? That's theft!
Actually I went to we survived bush thing-a-ma-jig to read that person's propaganda.

All we did was say we were going to boycott his restaurant. At first. Probably would have left it at that. But, we'll just say "certain people" couldn't leave it alone. Certain people had to hold an "appreciation day"

“I ask you to join me in speaking out on Wednesday, August 1 Chick Fil-A Appreciation Day. No one is being asked to make signs, speeches, or openly demonstrate. The goal is simple: Let’s affirm a business that operates on Christian principles and whose executives are willing to take a stand for the Godly values we espouse by simply showing up and eating at Chick Fil-A on Wednesday, August 1. Too often, those on the left make corporate statements to show support for same-sex marriage, abortion, or profanity, but if Christians affirm traditional values, we’re considered homophobic, fundamentalists, hate-mongers, and intolerant.”-Mike Huckabee started the idea on facebook. All he did was try to get people to support a Christian owned business that stands up for, let’s face it, a Christian principle. And you see his words rang true. If someone showed up to Chick fil-a that day they are automatically a person with hate. Some just wanted chicken. They have great noodle soup. Now were there people who went too far? YES! They were wrong to do so. If they verbally said something that degrades an individual they were dead wrong! But they had a right to have this day as a whole. And those who opposed had the right to protest it as well. Of course the media got involved it had something to do with a topic that has been divided a long time. If they stayed out of it, it probably would have been just a very busy day at chick fil a and it would have been over.

Try to "HEAR" what they are saying ABOUT YOUR SISTER.

If they say anything about my sister to me they won’t say much after that.

None of this was EVER about gay marriage. Lining up to eat that crap was simple a show of hatred. I've heard account after account from employees receiving comments like "Glad to know you hate queers as much as I do". There were several of these comments caught on camera. It wasn't EVER about gay marriage. It wasn't EVER about free speech. It was a show of pure, unadulterated hate.

They were wrong to say that. But only a few, like in any crowd, did it for hate. Just like the vandalism was not right to do. But I couldn't find what you are talking about except on blogs. I would like to go to those sites and let them know these people were wrong.

So, those are some facts that you missed.

Let the reader hear.

Now, onto the picture. You really didn't miss the point, did you? You know for a fact...ah. Never mind. I know you only see the rosiness of Christianity and I only see the rotten intestines. We're never going to agree. And since you stole my picture off of facebook, I'll steal a line from church..."IT WAS A METAPHOR"!

You don’t read much of my posts here do you? That is what this site was created for; the problems that Christians cause and won’t fix. Click on “problem” label and read. I used this picture also to plug to my Christian readers that they SHOULD be doing what it says. But on the other hand why should Christians be held at a higher standard? Shouldn’t we all be under the microscope?

And I still love you. I just don't always agree with how you've chosen to live.

Never doubted. Agreement doesn’t mean love.
You are my sister in whom I am well pleased.

hawkssong68 said...

Yeah, I can't find the videos either. I had bookmarked about five videos with pretty nasty comments in the background because I was going to do my own blog on the issue. They have all been deleted by Yahoo. If I have time, I may try to look them up on YouTube. There's only about a thousand videos tagged under Crapfila. Worth it? I don't know.

You'll just have to take into account my own personal experience. For the most part, we had a lot of "thumbs up", a lot of clapping, a lot of support. More than I expected. Unfortunately, the ones who QUOTE/UNQUOTE disagreed with us were much more verbal than those who were with us. Oh, we had the typical male teenager crap. One group of little boys actually drove past twice because they really screwed up their insult the first time around. LOL! You can picture it, can't you? "Man, dude, we SHOULD have said..." "Yeah! Let's go back!" We had several one fingered salutes from adults with children in their cars (Nice). We heard the word fa**ot quite a bit. One guy actually pulled up to the curb and asked us if we ever wondered if we were just having "a big temper tantrum". But the one that stood out the most, the one that, for some reason actually hurt my feelings, was the nice looking black man that screamed at the top of his lungs with his kids in the car, "F-YOU! F-YOU! F-YOU MOTHER-F-ERS! I HATE YOU! I HATE YOU! YOU NEED TO F-IN DIE!" It (and the ridiculous lines at Crapfila) literally shocked me back into reality...

America isn't ready...

While that may please you and your readers, it hurts me. It hurts me from a place you cannot understand and that I can't explain. Don't worry. Not gonna get into all that. I'm really kind done with the whole thing. I really just don't care what Americans/Christians/Republicans/Conservatives have to say about it anymore.

The part you and I agree totally on is that fact that this was a media baby. All we were doing was exercising our right to free speech by boycotting. Huckabee, who claimed to be "giddy" over his victory, and the media just couldn't let that go. No one anywhere EVER said Cathy had no right to say what he said. But, when you put your "ideas" out there for everyone to hear, you need to be man enough to accept the consequences. We didn't go fishing. He threw himself in our boat. We threw him back. And America spoke. Be pleased. You won.

C and I have already agreed that IF America ever caught up and legalized marriage for all, we would NOT choose to participate. We don't need a stinking piece of paper to know who we are to each other. Today, I feel comfortable enough believing that my family would honor our relationship in respect to property, power of attorney (which she has), and financial concerns should anything happen to me. My son is old enough and wise enough to fight any extended family if necessary. I believe I can expect the same of hers. Call it whatever you want. We know what it is.

And no one can take that away.

Done. Will not respond to this subject anymore. And, not gonna do the blog either so if the videos are still out there...that's where they'll stay.

:)

hawkssong68 said...

Oh, and you're right about one more thing. It doesn't happen much, so I thought you'd appreciate hearing that. I don't read this particular blog much! LOL!

And the only reason Christians are "held to a higher standard" is because: 1) Your leader set the bar pretty high, and 2) You all claim to have all the answers and tend to thumb your nose at "non-believers". (you know it's true...)

Gozreht said...

To attack any individual such as what some of the people at Chick Fil-A did was wrong. That is not acceptance. Being non-tolerant is different. Excersizing free speech is being non-tolerant. You accept the peson but you do not have to tolerate the actions. For those who were calling PEOPLE names they are wrong and should shut up. The actions from both sides about supporting and boycotting are absolutely okay to do.

It's not about winning. This whole mess actually is quite ugly and when both sides have these type of reactions, even one, then both sides lose.

And again keep in mind, you can add to the list some Independents, Moslems, Jewish, Mormons, even some Democrats that may disagree with you. It's not just the ones you hate. That is why America is "not ready". It is still across the board by a majority in all groups that this is not the way of life that is most beneficial to people either based on ideas of nature, society, or religion. There is acceptance but still non-tolerance.

Yes, Christians have a leader (I hope you mean Jesus and not Rush Limbaugh) that set the standard high. But that standard is not for Christians only. It is a standard for ALL humanity. All people should have these standards. We all should be loving, forgiving, and stuff. But we're not. But Christians are the only ones who get ridiculed for it. They are human too. They make mistakes. We do have the answers. But as you say we "thumb our noses" because people reject those answers. Everyone is a hypocrite so that is not the issue. They are egotistical. They are prideful. There is the issue. But everyone has the answers written in front of them but they chose not to listen or skip over the parts that would make them in the wrong. Let those who have ears let them hear...

Dogpound said...

Heard on PBS that Chick Fil-A gives them money too. I wonder if there will be a boycott now against PBS????

Gozreht said...

Dogpound,

I truly doubt it. I doubt many people know that but I also doubt it since they do many "educational" things as well. Thanks for the input.

Anonymous said...

Where is the outrage from the homosexual community about the shooting at the FRC? Someone saying gay marriage is horrible but someone who targets, shoots, and kills Christians because of chick fil-a is okay?

Gozreht said...

There should be outrage from all of the US, not just one part of a community. But I would be assuming no one knows about this. I didn't know until I saw your post. I checked it out. Some are saying he was targeting Christians groups. I don't know how true that is yet but I guess this will be the new trend in the ongoing violence of the US. Schools, theaters, now restuarants.

hawkssong68 said...

Condemned by 23 LBGT groups.

Where is YOUR outrage when they slaughter us in the streets?

Kick a dog long enough, it bites you.

Still no word on shooter's orientation.

Lots of speculation on his mental status.

Obviously, you still believe in eye for an eye, Anon.

hawkssong68 said...

And, I'm sorry, but SERIOUSLY?

The violent acts AGAINST homosexuals BY Christians is INSANELY higher. Your tit for tat is what makes Christians look childish.

The only reason the media hasn't gone crazy with this is because he was crappy shot.

You said so yourself. "If it bleeds, it leads".

Gozreht said...

Outrage should be on both sides for any violence (in any form) that is not against a tyrannical government. Never against a group of people based on anything. I hope we all agree with that.

COuld you elaborate about the slaughter you mentioned? I would like to know where that happened so I could raise a stink about it.

Anyone that takes weapons out of their home has some mental ossues period. Guns belong in the home to protect the home. Some for sport I guess but then they should give the animal a weapon and see who wins. :)

Any more info on the subject let me know.

Gozreht said...

I don't know what your second comment means. Media? From whose post?

I agree about the rhetoric. Facts, opinions, are okay but just accusing people and letting things spill out of our mouths do not help any situation. But maybe Anonymous is not Christian. We have to remember and not assume that all who come to this are Christian until they identify themselves as one. But the rhetoric is all the same, so I completely agree.

hawkssong68 said...

Robert Hillsborough
Harvey Milk
Terry Knudson
Rick Hunter
John Hanson
Declan Flynn
Charlie Howard
Rebecca Wight
James Zappalorit
Julio Rivera
Paul Broussard
Brandon Teena
Scott Amadure
Roxanne Ellis
Michelle Abdill
Matthew Shepard
PFC Barry Winchell
Gary Matson
Winfred Mowder
Steen Fenrich
JR Warren
Aaron Webster
Fred Martinez
Nizah Morris
Gwen Araujo
Sakia Gunn
Richie Phillips
Nireah Johnson
Brandie Coleman
Glenn Kopitske
Brian Williamson
FannyAnn Eddy
Daniel Fetty
Ronnie Paris (3 yrs old--by his father who thought he was a sissy boy)
Jason Gage
Jody Dobrowski
Lauren Harries
Gisberta Jumior
Richard Jefferson
Ryan Smith
Michael Sandy
Gareth Williams
Roberto Duncanson
Sean William Kennedy
Osvan Dos Santos
Craig Gee
Duanna Johnson
Larry King
Steven Parris
Tony Hunter
Lateisha Green
Diane Whipple
Mollie Olgin


I can keep going. These are (obviously) only a few publicized ones. Attacks on gay bars and clubs are not on the list either. And these are only since 1977.

You can't tell me you thought it was the other way around...

Gozreht said...

You didn't think I doubted you did you? I wanted to see some of these so if there are people who are still involved with this then I may be able to say things against these acts.

NO ONE should be killed for who they are. That is the same as Hitler.

But I sure hope you do not connect Christianity with these killings. I randomly picked some of these names and read about them. There were many factors in these killings. Drugs, mental illness, white supremacy, previous relationships with some of the people on the list. THIS IS NOT and excuse for any murder, but please do not claim they were all killed by Christians. Some may have been Christian in name but not in action!!! If Christians did do this then I hope they burn in hell!

Bottom line violence anywhere, anyhow in these cases are never justified? Right Adolf??????

Thanks for the post and let the reader understand more.

Gozreht said...

Okay, my hell comment was a litle too harsh. But I am guessing people will understand my feeling about it.

hawkssong68 said...

The reason I link these murders to Christianity (actually all religions) is because your text ADVOCATES the killing of homosexuals. Without the influence of the bible and the koran, there really isn't any reason to hate homosexuality. Without the hate, there's less reason to kill.

The bible and the koran (not sure about the torah) DEMAND death for the ACT of homosexuality. Many followers of these two texts use this as justification for their actions. You know it's true. Those six verses are actually fodder for your own argument. Just because you don't take it to the killing level...well...just semantics really.

Searched high and low for an example going the other way. Can't seem to find anyone murdered just for being "straight". But, as I said, kick a dog long enough...

Gozreht said...

You do realize it is the Torah that calls for the killings not the Bible, as you call it. The Torah is the books of Moses and the LAW. If you are referring to the Bible as the new testament, Jesus does not say to kill people. He does mention what will happen to people in the olam ha-ba.

Now that does not mean that Jewish people are murderers or that I was making an anti-Semitic statement. I am not Mel Gibson.

Man had turned away from God. Man wanted to live by "law", griped and complained about how life was. So God created a set of laws, very strict ones, to get man back in the right direction. Remember man had become so bad once before that He destroyed the earth. I agree it was drastic. It would have deterred me personally but man, as a whol,e and his bull-headedness still didn't listen to God. Many nations were expelled from the Promised Land because of their wickedness (no not homosexuality), wickedness period---disobedience to God. Israel was chosen to keep to the commands. Sometimes they did sometimes they didn't. They paid for it. Then along comes grace. No more strict law but strict hearts. Jesus did not call for people to be killed except of one's old self. I am not denying that some have tried to make it that way and on their own have called for it. You yourself apparently even interpret it that way. Any minister who says it does call for it is of another god, not mine. So, my text does not call for it. Yes, there are stories of people being stoned, beaten, slaughtered in the OT and Torah. But hmmm....so was Jesus, the last one to be killed for "who they are" by God using semantics. I can't speak for the koran but then again I don't want to, as I said, of another god, not mine.

Murders should never happen, period. And my heart goes out to those who have this done to them and their families. It is wrong to go after any individual. That is not compassion.

Some of the names you listed had nothing to do with religion. Some killed because they were in a relationship they didn't want in anymore. Some of those same ones also had mental instabilities or other problems such as drug-related pychosis and were white-supremists.

What six verses are you referring to? Do you mean the points in http://ideasoftimreligion.blogspot.com/2012/07/lxxxi-cult-of-personality.html?

I don't want to spend too much gtime on this because then we become just as bad as the media. So, if you will, find answers to the questions I pose. I will let you have last word unless you ask me specifically a question.

Just know this. I do not agree with any form of violent acts, whether it is the dog or the one kicking the dog. I love people. I love my family especially. But above all I love God.

See you soon.

Anonymous said...

Hawksong,
It's me Anon. I didnot mean to make it sound like I supported any violence. I read reports that this guy was going to go kill Christians. No media said any organizations condemned the act. If 23 did then I am glad for that. I do not believe an eye for an eye. I do believe that people hold different standards for different groups and as Gozrhet said it does seem like Christians are held higher and they should not be. You said they have a leader that set it high but shouldn't all people have high standards set? I am ashamed of the list you posted here. It shouldnot be like that. We preach love the sinner but hate the sin, these acts you have listed are just the opposite, so I am ashamed these things happened. My point in my post was that there should outrage from both sides if there is a wrong doing. Please forgive my words if they came out in the wrong attitude.

hawkssong68 said...

1 Corinthians 6:9
Romans 1:27
1 Timothy 1:10
Leviticus 20:13
Leviticus 18:22
Jude 1:7

...are the six verses to which I am referring. These are the six that have been interpreted as meaning homosexuality is a sin. What? You think I didn't know? Think I never read them? I've actually read the whole thing, including the begats. And I know the whole story of OT v. NT. What you HAVE to realize is a lot of Christians use these verses (six out of 31,000) to justify their hatred of homosexuals. It's just true. Maybe they're not "real" Christians. But, I'm willing to bet they certainly believe they are.

Yes, the shooting was condemned by all the major Gay groups. Yep. We have that many, LOL! Just to name a couple: SAGE, GLSEN, PROMO, Truth Wins Out, Log Cabin, Stonewall, GLAAD, HRC, PFLAGG, NCLR. Oh, and last I checked, it was up to 41...

I have to admit, I laughed when I read, Anonymous said, It's me, Anon! Think about it. It's funny. You'll laugh, too.

I'm just sick and tired of the same arguments, the same rhetoric over and over. "Well, they did this and they did that." And my favorite, "For people who preach tolerance, they sure are intolerant". Ugh. Pleeeeease come up with some new stuff. Maybe I just need to stay off the internet...but who would post on here in opposition to everything you say? No one learns from agreements.

Anon, no need for "forgiveness". I practice what I preach. You have a right to your opinion. And again, the only reason I say Christians are held to a higher standard is, sorry, they tend to be slightly more judgmental of other groups.

And yeah, I was speaking about your leader, Rush! What? Hey! Did you hear even he was upset by Akins' comment? You HAVE to be a nutball if you're Republican and Rush can't defend what you've said!

Tired. Going to bed. Have a good morning.

LOL! My captcha is wasntme! LOL!

Gozreht said...

I didn't want to keep going but I think there are some things that need something added or so.

...are the six verses to which I am referring. These are the six that have been interpreted as meaning homosexuality is a sin. What? You think I didn't know? Think I never read them?

I didn't know them. I don't focus on these verses. I know I am not perfect, I don't need a list to tell me how bad I might be. I would much rather focus on what I need to be like and what I can do to help others.

I've actually read the whole thing, including the begats. And I know the whole story of OT v. NT. What you HAVE to realize is a lot of Christians use these verses (six out of 31,000) to justify their hatred of homosexuals. It's just true. Maybe they're not "real" Christians. But, I'm willing to bet they certainly believe they are.

Well, that may be true. But some topics barely get one verse and it is etched in stone. Six verses, if they all say the same thing is hard to contradict. I am sure someone could with some effort, or at least they think they did. But this is a different topic. I would rather keep that somewhere else. The main idea of this "thought" is not about homosexuality it was about how Christians are not allowed to stand up for their beliefs because as soon as they do they are labelled hate mongers and stuff. And as you pointed out and I agree with, some are, but not all should be in the group.


I'm just sick and tired of the same arguments, the same rhetoric over and over. "Well, they did this and they did that." And my favorite, "For people who preach tolerance, they sure are intolerant". Ugh. Pleeeeease come up with some new stuff. Maybe I just need to stay off the internet...but who would post on here in opposition to everything you say? No one learns from agreements.

I have invited plenty of people to talk here. I get a lot of flack on this one site. (They don't win :) )But I like opinions and discussion. And one reason why people don't oppose everything I say is because that is impossible. I make way too much sense :)

And yeah, I was speaking about your leader, Rush! What? Hey! Did you hear even he was upset by Akins' comment? You HAVE to be a nutball if you're Republican and Rush can't defend what you've said!

Rush should get off the air. I can assure you even if he and I agree on something I still don't want to hear that blowhard. But I am sure you really mean the big JC. At least you should now.

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