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Saturday, September 6, 2008

VIII. Christian Democrats?

Can you be a Christian and a Democrat? Well you have to weigh the evidence yourself. If you go to the Democratic Party website and start reading their platform, you can easily say yes you can. But platforms are sometimes disguises.

Two of the planks are called Advancing Democracy, Development, and Respect for Human Rights and Renewing the American Community. These on the surface sound like the right things to do, and they would be the right things to do. However, under the surface one human right that they forget is the natural right of LIFE. A baby even in the womb has life yet they do not recognize it. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who claims to practice Catholicism, can not even admit that the Catholic faith recognizes the child from conception. She made up a lie that says the Catholic Church hasn't made a decision about when life starts. The Catholic Church is now up in arms over this comment by her and states the official comment on life is that it begins at conception and has said so for 2000 years. Go RCC!!!!! http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=29033.  A direct quote from the platform says: "The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman's right to choose a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay, and we oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right,". If there is a democrat who says otherwise then they are out casted.

A question they do not ask themselves is who deserves these rights? The correct answer should be: every living soul. Yet, if there is a dictator who is killing people by the masses, they will be the ones who refuse to help them out. Bosnia...nothing, Rwanda...nothing, Iraq...nothing.

They claim to be a party for the people. On the surface, this is a fantastic idea. Yet, when it comes to pick their choice as leader, they feel they do not have to listen to their constituency. They have something called "Super Delegates" that are not bound by any accountability. If Hillary Clinton would have won the most delegates during the primaries, these 823 special people (25% of total count) can basically overrule them. This is called cheating the people.

They believe in stem cells being used as a form of medicine. This may start out as fine but there are those who want to start to clone, seriously! This is where it becomes morally and ethically wrong. God is the only one who can create life. He puts the souls into mankind. If we grow people then we become God-like. This has had disastrous results when men have tried these things in the past.

Their platform claims that they want to have faith based programs. But in reality they have joined with groups that try and destroy the Christian faith, i.e. the ACLU. They do not admit this. But there are too many overwhelming facts that say the opposite. Taking the 10 Commandments out of every public building. First of all, the 1st Amendment doesn't even mention separation of Church and State. And the part they claim it does say it, it is talking about government places not public places. Taking "Under God" out of the pledge, taking "In God We Trust" off the money. Taking away prayers in school, bible readings from all public arenas. This is the hidden agenda of the DNC, hence Barak Obama and Joe Biden.

They want to destroy traditional values of the family.  They support homosexually active people and want to change the definition of marriage. This is one of the first commands given by God.

You can try to be a democrat and uphold a Christian lifestyle, but it may be too difficult in reality. Do not kid yourself. Do not try and rationalize it. You will lead yourself right into a lie.

Can you be a Christian and a Democrat? Not really. But you be the judge.

By the way, the Republican Party is not the saving grace either, but it's better than the alternative.


Brownsfan said...

"All Republicans may not be Christians, but all Christians should be Republicans!" - Wayne B. Smith

Gozreht said...

That sounds like Wayne. :)

I don't know if I could agree completely but all Christians should stick together for sure. I think if all of us looked towards the Constitution Party (after this election of course) we would see a btter choice.

Sh'ma Y'srael Goyim said...

"Christians" who believe in and support the Democratic platform are saying that Y'shua, Jesus, supports abortion, homosexual right to marry and practices that degrades the sanctity of the family. Just to name a few.

This is not the Messiah I know.

Come, Lord Y'Shua Come.

Gozreht said...

Unfortunately Sh'ma, many Christians are still stuck in the world and vote their pocket book (during the Clinton years) and now vote for Democrats just because they hate President Bush or because of tradition of their family.

The sanctity of the family is lost to this generation of Americans (post-wwii).

Gozreht said...

By the way I am not of the wwii generation. I am only in my 30's.

B.H. said...

I do think you can be a Christian and a democrat because we don't have to agree with every point of the party platform to feel one candidate is the better choice. ( yes, that means I am voting for Obama and I am Christian). We are to follow the laws of the land (render unto ceasar that which is ceasar's) unless those laws conflict with the laws of God, then we follow what god has established. Abortion, homosexuality, etc. It makes no difference to me what the opinion of the democrats, republicans, mccain, or obama may be, I know what God says is right and what He says is wrong. So I won't be participating in abortions or homosexual acts, not because I am a democrat or a republican, but because I am a Christian. So, when it comes to issues where there is a conflict, God wins with me, not a certain party. I feel that we should be trying to change peoples mind about these issues as a christian, not a democrat or republican. Legislating the morals of people will not make a problem go away. we need to teach them it is wrong, and why it is wrong. Not making a law to tell them how they feel about it. Besides, the republicans have been in office for 24 out of the 36 years since roe v. wade was passed and they haven't done anything about it yet. If I did consider myself a republican I would be upset that they bring this out every four years, just in time to get the conservative christian vote. I am basing my vote on the things government should be responsible for, the economy, trade issues, defecit spending, things that God kinda left to us. If Obama is in favor of abortion, shame on him, and if I ever got to meet him I would tell him why I feel he should change his mind, but in the mean time, that doesn't have an impact on me. You may find my thoughts completly nuts, but thats what makes this country great. We can disagree and still be friends.

Gozreht said...

I think you have some terrific points here. I find myself agreeing wioth most of what you said.
1) you don't have to agree with the whole platform.
2)We are to follow laws of the land unless it goes against God's laws.
3)God does not belong to a political party.
4)changing minds about the issues of immorality is key.
5)the Republicans haven't been able to do anything about Roe v Wade.
6) Shame on Obama.
7) God did leave certain things up to us.
8) America is great.
9) We can definitely be friends.

However, :)

Let me ask some things before you make your final decision.
1) Is money (economy) more impotant than family values (abortion)? Let's face it neither party can actually handle the economy anyway. Most of the economy is by the investors and people like you and me, the buyers of products. It is all about supply and demand.
2) If we support someone who would allow these things or at least stands for these things, are we as wrong to suppport them?
3) Could it be that maybe no Republican has done anything about abortion because they couldn't do anything about it? It took awhile to get a majority of conservatives on the Supreme Court. But the SC can not hear a case just because they want to hear it. It has to be appealed to them or it has to be directly involving part of the Constitution that is already in place. Neither of these is the case.
4) How far can we swing to the left before the right disappears? Can we afford to keep putting the left-wing into office and expect Christian values to keep coming through if the left is pretty much anti-Christian?
5) Sort of joking here...what if Obama IS the anti-Christ? How would it look standing in front of God when He asks you did you support him? Hey, you never know. :)
6) Do you think it is time to vote a third party?

BH, thank you for your comment. I would definitely consider you a Conservative Democrat so you are not all that bad.

Sh'ma Y'srael Goyim said...

"Legislating the morals of people will not make a problem go away."

Are you aware that the degradation of every major civilization is earmarked with the exceptance of immoral practices such as infanticide and homosexuality?

It is true that the power behind all nations is a spiritual one. Daniel 10. Our responsibility is to assist in a two sided warfare against the god of the world, Satan and his cohorts. This includes prayer and supporting God's will in all matters.

Please correct me if I misunderstood. But it sounds like you want to ignore these matters in lieu of your financial well being.

Also, it appears to me that you think we shouldn't consider the morals of a candidate when choosing our governmental servants. That's just wrong and against Gods will.

I agree with you that we should not legislate morallity, God already did that, but we should not assist any governmental official who would fascilitate the moral degradation of our society. God put us in control of this world and we will be held responsible.

If you had children who desired to be murderers and thieves, would you try to stop them or buy them guns, knives and hoods?

Nowadays, there is hardly any fiscal or social differences between most Democrats and Republicans in congress. So it amazes me when any christian identify themselves as Democrats given the moral differences.

As a Democrat, you are supporting

1. Removing God and prayer from our public school systems.
2. Making it easy for the degradation of the family unit.
3. Blurring the line between right and wrong.

just to mention a few.

Democratic leaders are socialists. Do you really think you can consider yourself a socialist supporter and a Christian?

Do you realize that your attitude toward selecting our leaders could in fact be helping to usher in the anti-christian society described in the bible?

If you were before the throne of God, would you honestly say, "I wasn't actually participating in the abortions"?

Please believe me when I say that this was not written as mean spirited. Just expressing my thoughts with another believer. I honestly don't want you to be one of the ones Jesus says, "Depart from me you worker of iniquity for I never knew you."

If anthing comes out of this blog, please let it be that you don't consider yourself a christian and a democrat or republican, but a Christian first and an American second doing the will of God.

Gozreht said...


Good points. Many Christians will feel the same way that our friend BH feels. Their motivations are reasonable, honest, and humane. But infortunately they will not view it the same way we do for some reason. Many in this category I feel do so (and please take no offense anyone on this) because they were raised in a house that had parents in unions, poverty, minority status, or they simply are angry with the way the world is currently going. This is not to say that all would fit these categories or that they are wrong for being in these groups. (Some are just plain nuts) We can not condemn them for having these beliefs. We can only try and shed some truth to the matter in hopes they will change their mind.

Many of my friends will vote for Senator Obama and they go to my congregation or have in the past. I wish I could change their mind. I know their heart is in the right place but may have something in their lives that they feel compelled to hold onto their political beliefs.

Again, the Republican Party isn't the answer either. As we all have stated no party actually will be able to grip the economic issues that hurt the middle class because none of the polticians are middle classed.

I would love to vote Constitution Party. I agree with 95% of what they stand for. I agree with the GOP about 80%. And I agree with the DEM about 25%. With that said I have to agree with you that supporting the DEM would go against almost all of my value systems. And given the sign of the times, I will vote 99% Republican unless I find a local Constitution candidate.

I think (and I am running the risk of sounding like a doomsday prophet) that Obama could very well fit the end times leader that the Bible talks about. I don't want that on my conscience.

I hope and pray that Christians do not rationalize their voting. We can rationalize our way right out of existence.

Rationalize: "rational lies".

Dale said...

These are all the reasons that I have decided to vote for Obama. I believe that he will "reform" our country to fit the "world" view and it is very important to me what the world thinks of our elected leaders. Now, about that bridge I want to sell you.......
Why I am voting Democrat? I'm voting Democrat because I believe the government will do a better job of spending MY MONEY than I would. I'm voting Democrat because I believe that business should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. All profits are evil and should be confiscated for Government Redistribution. I'm voting Democrat because I believe that MORE Government regulations and higher taxes on Business will stop Business from exporting their jobs to Countries with LESS Government regulations and lower taxes. I'm voting Democrat because I think those people on the Supreme Court and the State Supreme Courts know a hell of a lot better than the we the people do about what is good for us and what we want. I'm voting Democrat because I believe terrorists should have the same rights as ordinary American citizens. They should be allowed to have trials in American courts. They should be able to subpoena top secret documents, soldiers, government officials, etc. to cross examine for their defense. I'm voting Democrat because I believe in a FREE government health care system. I believe doctors, nurses, hospitals, drug companies, etc. will gladly donate their time, products, services, facilities, etc. for FREE and that will be a better system. I'm voting Democrat because I believe in and support trial lawyers, frivolous lawsuits and outrageous jury verdicts. I'm voting Democrat because I believe 9/11 was an inside job to con the American people to go to war for oil. I'm voting Democrat because I believe social security is solvent and that there is a social security lock box and I don't believe social security is a Ponzi scheme. I'm voting Democrat because I believe English should not be the official language of the United States. I don't mind pushing one for English when I use the phone. And English speaking American kids have had it good for too long and deserve an inferior education. That will bring justice. I'm voting Democrat because I believe partial birth abortion is okay but water boarding a terrorist is disgusting. Even more disgusting is shooting a moose and making your family eat it for an entire winter when being a little hungry would be so much more sensitive, that is if you can't buy meat packaged and killed by someone else. I'm voting Democrat because I believe having home grown terrorist like Bill Ayers as an alliance is a good thing. It will allow for easy friendships with foreign terrorists. And a nice Marxist type Socialism is exactly what we need here to bring about social justice. I'm voting Democrat because I believe illegal aliens deserve all the rights of ordinary Americans plus some additional rights Americans do not have. I'm voting Democrat because I believe groups like ACORN who register felons, drug addicts, homeless drifters, illegal aliens, dead people, children, etc. makes my vote count more. I'm voting Democrat because I believe celebrating the winter solstice shows compassion for the small minority of people that do not celebrate Christmas. I'm voting Democrat because I believe hard core criminal murders and rapists deserve life and that the innocent unborn deserve death. It's a choice I can live with. I'm voting Democrat because I believe Bush caused Hurricane Katrina and he blew-up the levies in the ninth ward of New Orleans, and that all the black people he put in his administration was just to fake us out and make us believe he's not a racist. I'm votin Demokrat becuse I wus edumkated at a publick sckrool. I'm voting Democrat because I believe that any one who is not partaking in one of the many wonderful government programs obviously has too much money and should pay higher taxes. I'm voting Democrat because when we pull out of Iraq the terrorists will be happy and now think of us as good people. I'm voting Democrat because freedom of speech is fine as long as it does not offend people nor come out of the mouth of a Republican. Can't we all just get along? I'm voting Democrat because I believe oil companies' profits are wrong. I believe higher taxes on oil companies will produce lower prices at the pump. I'm voting Democrat because I believe we need to rid ourselves of dependency on foreign oil, but I am against offshore drilling, building nuclear power plants and clean coal technology. And finally, I'm voting Democrat because I believe Reverend Wright when he said "GODDAMN AMERICA" and "OUR CHICKENS ARE COMING HOME TO ROOST". And I support his church of Liberation Theology Christianity that says you serve God by overthrowing the White, Capitalistic government...non violently or violently...whichever. After all, we white people have done terrible things and deserve to be punished. And Democrats will make sure we are. That's why I'm voting Democrat. Why are you voting Democrat?

Justme said...

Well Dale, when you put it that way.....heck, we ALL should be Democats! Man I wish I had read that BEFORE I voted!!

As I have stated, it is all about the heart.
I think most politicians will say anything to get elected. Obama is now faced with groups trying to force him to act on thier agendas - which he happily talked to them about to get in office.
Can I trust a person who allows things clearly immoral to make the decisions that I must live under?
With no morals what kind of decisions will he make? Scary, but he is now our president and I will give him the respect that God calls on us to give.
(I wanted Huckabee.)

Gozreht said...

Go Huck!!!!! 2012...

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